?Help? Oh What A Mess...

[Audrey]

it DID come out great, Amber.

[DESG]

Your Dutchman may be flawless, but there is no solder between the pieces of glass.  If the foil is dislodged, there is nothing holding the glass.  It is just as easy to foil the edges if they are clean and the solder will go between the glass and hold it all together from both sides of the window.

Rebecca

with the wire technique you get more solder than if foiled on the glass and doing it this way you don't have to clean all of the old flux off. The process is quicker, easier and completely un-noticeable. Ambers repair was almost perfect and could have been 100% if wire was used. I would only suggest doing it this way due to the missing foil on the good pieces next to the repair.
Not to pick but you can see evidence of indenting of the bead where it perpendiculars to the adjacent good piece. This doesn't bother me but again could be completely avoided.
The wire technique also works great doing a lead repair where you shave off one side of the leaf where the broken piece is and lay down a new bead (50/50) to resemble the original lead. Allowing a slight gap between the core and the wire creates the look of lead and unless you knew it was repaired you can't tell...
Nice repair job none the less. Congrats!

[ct4mom]

Gary, I'm confused. Is the Dutchman putting the foil over the top of the pieces to create a solder line? wouldnt that prevent the solder from flowing inbetween the two pieces? And is the wire put over the replaced piece soldered in place,wouldnt it show where it starts and finishes as the wire is thicker than the foil?  Is there a tutorial out there on this.   

[DESG]

Gary, I'm confused. Is the Dutchman putting the foil over the top of the pieces to create a solder line? wouldnt that prevent the solder from flowing inbetween the two pieces? And is the wire put over the replaced piece soldered in place,wouldnt it show where it starts and finishes as the wire is thicker than the foil?  Is there a tutorial out there on this.  

The foil flange or "dutchman" covers the unfoiled piece and meets up with the new foiled repaired piece. Due to the glue on the bottom solder doesn't have a chance to seep around as with wire. I use a very light gauge wire which does allow the solder to wrap around. Back in the day we used foil with no glue so both methods worked equally well for straight line repairs. For curves the wire is superior and a better choice. Ideally you want to leave the existing foil on the neighboring good pieces and just foil the new repair piece. I was just giving a good alternative due to the circumstances.
Next time I have a repair like this I'll post a video or some still shots.

[Rebecca]

You are correct, Diane.  Gary, don't forget that I am a mechanical engineer.  Your way is not as strong.  I will use your way if there is no alternative, but prefer to use the stronger method.  The stronger method is not visible because it is the same as the original.  Amber did a beautiful job!

Rebecca

[DESG]

You are correct, Diane.  Gary, don't forget that I am a mechanical engineer.  Your way is not as strong.  I will use your way if there is no alternative, but prefer to use the stronger method.  The stronger method is not visible because it is the same as the original.  Amber did a beautiful job!

Rebecca

Yes she did a beautiful job, You haven't forget I've been in glass for over 33 years. Tried it all and will reiterate that solder is stronger than foil. I'll post a good descriptive repair demonstration for you and other newbies that wish to learn some old tricks ;)

[Linde]

I love this piece...you did a wonderful job with it.

[Becki]

Sounds like we already have a few members with some good "old tricks"!  Beautiful piece, Amber.  You did a great job.

[DESG]

Sounds like we already have a few members with some good "old tricks"!  Beautiful piece, Amber.  You did a great job.

I said "old tricks" whether they're good or not you have to decide.
Looks to me many or most here have never seen this technique. Sorry to come off as condescending but when confronted with an academic superiority response, I had to defend those (and I ) who do this for a living. I for one would never walk into a pizza parlor and tell the pie flipper who's been doing it since he was 16 that his toss is off or dough just didn't poof just right.

[Amber]

And this is why I really love this place! Seriously, so many great methods AND good standing reasons for all......... I'm half tempted to break another piece to try Gary's way now (o.k. now I am joking *l). Really though, it's nice to be told not just how to do it but why I should do it a certain way and also to have more then one option!
And Gary, I just visited your website and your work is truly beautiful I will take any 'old tricks' you toss my way!

[Becki]

Good attitude, Amber!

[Vic Rothman]

I fully agree with Rebecca, for whatever my 38 years in glass is worth.

"The wire technique also works great doing a lead repair where you shave off one side of the leaf where the broken piece is and lay down a new bead (50/50) to resemble the original lead."

And I must disagree with this method, Tearing off a flange of lead in order to replace a piece of glass is the last thing you should do.

[Rebecca]

You are correct, Diane.  Gary, don't forget that I am a mechanical engineer.  Your way is not as strong.  I will use your way if there is no alternative, but prefer to use the stronger method.  The stronger method is not visible because it is the same as the original.  Amber did a beautiful job!

Rebecca

Yes she did a beautiful job, You haven't forget I've been in glass for over 33 years. Tried it all and will reiterate that solder is stronger than foil. I'll post a good descriptive repair demonstration for you and other newbies that wish to learn some old tricks ;)

Solder is stronger than foil?  That is what I am saying.  Solder between the glass is stronger than foil on top of the glass.  And I have done "patches" with wire.  It's something I don't do unless there isn't another way to do it.  I'm not doubting that you can do it well, but it isn't the best way to do it and isn't the method that I would recommend for a person's first repair.

Rebecca

[DESG]

I fully agree with Rebecca, for whatever my 38 years in glass is worth.

"The wire technique also works great doing a lead repair where you shave off one side of the leaf where the broken piece is and lay down a new bead (50/50) to resemble the original lead."

And I must disagree with this method, Tearing off a flange of lead in order to replace a piece of glass is the last thing you should do.

I should have added I use this for lead only if the broken piece is hard to get at disassembling the panel. Say a central piece. For borders or near the edge obviously I wouldn't do this.
Once you see the results of this procedure and how it's done correctly you will thank me I'm sure. I'll post the video soon as I get one of these repairs...

[Vic Rothman]

I fully agree with Rebecca, for whatever my 38 years in glass is worth.

"The wire technique also works great doing a lead repair where you shave off one side of the leaf where the broken piece is and lay down a new bead (50/50) to resemble the original lead."

And I must disagree with this method, Tearing off a flange of lead in order to replace a piece of glass is the last thing you should do.

I should have added I use this for lead only if the broken piece is hard to get at disassembling the panel. Say a central piece. For borders or near the edge obviously I wouldn't do this.
Once you see the results of this procedure and how it's done correctly you will thank me I'm sure. I'll post the video soon as I get one of these repairs...

I have replaced 1000's of broken pieces of broken glass in windows that were not removed from their settings. Not a problem, if you know how. There is no need to tear off lead flanges in 99% of the repairs.

[DESG]

Bending up the leaves of old flat lead isn't a problem and the proper way to repair a window. i was talking about where round lead is used. Sorry if I didn't point that out. 

[ct4mom]

That's why we ask questions....we get many answers all are correct but which one is right for you or the job. Thanks Gary I sure hope you post that tutorial because Im sure everyone will understand it better seeing it.